From: Andrew Black - lists Date: 12:16 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. Ahhh - please can you merkins learn that you are not the only country in the world...
From: Yossi Kreinin Date: 12:27 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. Andrew Black - lists wrote: > Ahhh - please can you merkins learn that you are not the only country in > the world... > It wouldn't be that bad if I knew what valid ZIP codes were so I could fake one.
From: Philip Newton Date: 12:35 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On 4/22/07, Yossi Kreinin <yossi.kreinin@xxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > Andrew Black - lists wrote: > > Ahhh - please can you merkins learn that you are not the only country in > > the world... > > It wouldn't be that bad if I knew what valid ZIP codes were so I could fake one. How about "Provo, UT 84604". It's what I always use. (Mostly because it's the only valid ZIP code I know.) Cheers,
From: Andrew Black - lists Date: 12:41 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. Philip Newton wrote: > How about "Provo, UT 84604". It's what I always use. (Mostly because > it's the only valid ZIP code I know.) It does somewhat depend on whether they are going to check the code you give against you credit card details, or whether you would prefer you goods to be delivered to London or Utah :-)
From: Peter da Silva Date: 14:52 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On Apr 22, 2007, at 6:35 AM, Philip Newton wrote: > On 4/22/07, Yossi Kreinin <yossi.kreinin@xxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> It wouldn't be that bad if I knew what valid ZIP codes were so I >> could fake one. > How about "Provo, UT 84604". It's what I always use. (Mostly because > it's the only valid ZIP code I know.) Try this one: Usenet Central Administration 1060 W. Addison Chicago, IL 60636
From: Andy Armstrong Date: 12:39 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On 22 Apr 2007, at 12:27, Yossi Kreinin wrote: > It wouldn't be that bad if I knew what valid ZIP codes were so I > could fake one. Beverly Hills 90120
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi Date: 13:40 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. Andrew Black - lists wrote: > Ahhh - please can you merkins learn that you are not the only country in > the world... > > Or "please enter your 10-digit telephone number, the four digit extension last" and after trying to fake one "we are sorry, but that is not a valid area code". Luckily quite many places seem to accept the "555" area code...
From: Abigail Date: 14:42 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. --kVXhAStRUZ/+rrGn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 12:16:56PM +0100, Andrew Black - lists wrote: > Ahhh - please can you merkins learn that you are not the only country in= =20 > the world... Oh, it's not just merkins think the entire world is like them. Most Europeans also think every has both a first and a last name. Abigail --kVXhAStRUZ/+rrGn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGK2ZIBOh7Ggo6rasRApvmAJ4nYZvbB1QqT3h2dVItGNMPtsSO3ACgo7ep KTJJzgrp08bqXkFbOycw82E= =JTIe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kVXhAStRUZ/+rrGn--
From: Andrew Black - lists Date: 15:20 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. Abigail wrote: > Oh, it's not just merkins think the entire world is like them. > > Most Europeans also think every has both a first and a last name. That is a fair point. I had to create an account on our server for a guy from Bangalore who was listed in our coporate address book as Lastname: IndianName Forename: EnglishForename But he signed his emails IndianName. Our covention is to use AndrewB as the account name (OK for a small team, doesnt scale well corporately). My collegues said he MUST be called EnglishForename. I said I wasn't sure and I want to talk to him first to find out what he is normally called.
From: Abigail Date: 15:28 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. --EY/WZ/HvNxOox07X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 03:20:42PM +0100, Andrew Black - lists wrote: > Abigail wrote: >=20 > >Oh, it's not just merkins think the entire world is like them. > > > >Most Europeans also think every has both a first and a last name. >=20 > That is a fair point. I had to create an account on our server for a=20 > guy from Bangalore who was listed in our coporate address book as > Lastname: IndianName > Forename: EnglishForename > But he signed his emails IndianName. >=20 > Our covention is to use AndrewB as the account name (OK for a small=20 > team, doesnt scale well corporately). My collegues said he MUST be=20 > called EnglishForename. I said I wasn't sure and I want to talk to him= =20 > first to find out what he is normally called. In the company I work for, the standard is 'firstname.lastname', both as email address, and as username for various services. Luckely, the company I work for is geeky enough to make an exception for me. Abigail --EY/WZ/HvNxOox07X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGK3ElBOh7Ggo6rasRAkOJAJ94xwg/9NDA5/7vIfAjXJ3nPc68EACgluF8 xzgXbsHKatLw866/NjryyTI= =lc5q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EY/WZ/HvNxOox07X--
From: Bob Walker Date: 15:34 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On Sun, 22 Apr 2007, Abigail wrote: > On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 03:20:42PM +0100, Andrew Black - lists wrote: >> Abigail wrote: >> >>> Oh, it's not just merkins think the entire world is like them. >>> >>> Most Europeans also think every has both a first and a last name. >> >> That is a fair point. I had to create an account on our server for a >> guy from Bangalore who was listed in our coporate address book as >> Lastname: IndianName >> Forename: EnglishForename >> But he signed his emails IndianName. >> >> Our covention is to use AndrewB as the account name (OK for a small >> team, doesnt scale well corporately). My collegues said he MUST be >> called EnglishForename. I said I wasn't sure and I want to talk to him >> first to find out what he is normally called. > > > In the company I work for, the standard is 'firstname.lastname', both > as email address, and as username for various services. > which still doesnt scale very well. since firstname.lastname2 just looks silly and for that matter the . will probably confuse some things. Also quite frankly its far too long as a username. im fond of first initial last initial then a number. eg bw1 then have aliases for email. > Luckely, the company I work for is geeky enough to make an exception > for me. > > > Abigail >
From: Roger Burton West Date: 21:09 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 03:34:21PM +0100, Bob Walker wrote: >which still doesnt scale very well. since firstname.lastname2 just looks silly >and for that matter the . will probably confuse some things. Also quite frankly >its far too long as a username. And when Mr Firstname Lastname is brought in as a president a few years down the line, he's not going to be happy to be firstname.lastname7. >im fond of first initial last initial then a number. eg bw1 >then have aliases for email. The only really practical approach seems to be to let people choose whatever username they like, and have lots of role aliases. R
From: Matt McLeod Date: 01:34 on 23 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On 4/23/07, Roger Burton West <roger@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > The only really practical approach seems to be to let people choose > whatever username they like, and have lots of role aliases. Which would be what we do here. On your first day of work/study, you log in to the 'accounts' service (web thingo, use your name and bank details/student number/other secret). First thing it does is suggest some possible usernames, including a text field where you can enter your own. You *also* get the mail aliases of the first.last@xxxxxx.xxx form much-loved by managers and that causes much more trouble because those are refreshed every year. But as we have at least three major subdomains for mail (staff, ugrad, pgrad) there's less clashing than there might otherwise be. Nothing is ever perfect, all you can really do is try to limit how much it's going to suck. Matt
From: Andrew Black - lists Date: 15:55 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. Joshua Rodman wrote: > Perhaps to add to your american misery, I don't think we even know what > "forename" means, as a rule. I certainly don't. It suggests the one > that comes first (forelegs, foreward, etc.), but I have a suspicion that > it's nonsensically the one that comes last. It is what we used to call "Christian Name" in our less multicultural and more European/ British supremacist days. Ie the Andrew of "Andrew Black". What do you call it in US?
From: Andy Armstrong Date: 15:58 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On 22 Apr 2007, at 15:55, Andrew Black - lists wrote: > It is what we used to call "Christian Name" in our less > multicultural and more European/ British supremacist days. Ie the > Andrew of "Andrew Black". > > What do you call it in US? "forename" assuming the American Heritage Dictionary is to be believed: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/forename :)
From: Peter da Silva Date: 16:01 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. > What do you call it in US? I've seen both "first name" or "given name" on forms, with "last name" or "family name" as the other slot. Japanese can get messed up with that because their family name comes first, but the internal databases behind the documents assume that "first name" is "given name". There was a long discussion about this in The Other Place.
From: David Cantrell Date: 18:52 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 10:01:26AM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote: > I've seen both "first name" or "given name" on forms, with "last name" > or "family name" as the other slot. Even "family name" isn't really right, as not everyone inherits a name from their parents. If I were to change my name to David Smith I would no longer have a family name. Using first and last names doesn't work as that gives you no idea about which one is more important - for example, is Chow Yun-Fat Mr. Chow or Mr. Yun-Fat? How about Joseph Boulogne de Saint-Georges? M. Boulogne or M. de Saint-Georges? > Japanese can get messed up with that because their family name comes > first, but the internal databases behind the documents assume that > "first name" is "given name". If you want to get it correct, you have to ask everyone to provide an arbitrarily long list of names, and to indicate what they prefer to be called in various situations. I am David Richard Cantrell. If I am your customer I will graciously permit you to refer to me as Mr. Cantrell and address me as Sir. Down the pub you can call me Dave. If you're family, I'm David. And so on. Alternatively, you can just collect my given name and my family name and hope that's good enough. You won't piss me off *that* much if you get it wrong, and it's not as if weirdly-named people are a significant proportion of your user base (for a definition of weird that varies from one place to another).
From: Adam Atlas Date: 16:33 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: first and a last name. Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On 22 Apr 2007, at 10.55, Andrew Black - lists wrote: > It is what we used to call "Christian Name" in our less > multicultural and more European/ British supremacist days. Ie the > Andrew of "Andrew Black". > > What do you call it in US? I almost exclusively hear "first name". I'm familiar with "given name" and "forename", but I don't hear those much in actual usage. Maybe it's a regional thing; I'm from the Northeast. (After all, what's called "American English" is really a whole bunch of related but varying regional dialects and accents. Non-Americans might not be able to see such a difference, but then again, a lot of Americans can't tell the difference between a British accent and an Australian accent, let alone an Australian accent and a New Zealand accent.)
From: H.Merijn Brand Date: 18:07 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:42:32 +0200, Abigail <abigail@xxxxxxx.xx> wrote: > On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 12:16:56PM +0100, Andrew Black - lists wrote: > > Ahhh - please can you merkins learn that you are not the only country in > > the world... > > > Oh, it's not just merkins think the entire world is like them. > > Most Europeans also think every has both a first and a last name. Try to fill in an American form with H.Merijn Brand. Most will complain that that name is invalid, ad they expect Whoever X. Brand instead. End most of Non-American nations do NOT have a state! Don't make us choose one.
From: Andrew Black - lists Date: 18:47 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. H.Merijn Brand wrote: > Try to fill in an American form with H.Merijn Brand. Most will complain > that that name is invalid, ad they expect Whoever X. Brand instead. I have a friend who users her 3rd given name (3rd first name doesn't sound quite right) and the system of her (UK based) employer can't cope with this. She signs a form as (say) Sue Bloggs and they say why have you signed is as Sue. It might be something to do with the fact that is is her name. > End most of Non-American nations do NOT have a state! Don't make us > choose one. Go to http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByRoute.do select by airport and enter well known airports. (JFK) John F. Kennedy Intl, New York, NY, US (LHR) Heathrow Airport, London, EN, GB (EDI) Turnhouse Airport, Edinburgh, SC, GB (CWL) Cardiff-Wales Airport, WL, GB (BFS) Belfast Intl, NI, GB They obviously think that EN,SC,WL,NI belong to the same namespace as NY
From: David Cantrell Date: 18:24 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 03:42:32PM +0200, Abigail wrote: > Oh, it's not just merkins think the entire world is like them. > Most Europeans also think every has both a first and a last name. Everyone does. It's just that sometimes they overlap.
From: A. Pagaltzis Date: 18:47 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. * David Cantrell <david@xxxxxxxx.xxx.xx> [2007-04-22 19:30]: > Everyone does. It's just that sometimes they overlap. There are languages in which there is only a single name. You can semantically find equivalents to first name, middle names and family/clan name in such names, but you can't reasonably write them as separate words. Also, the order of given name, family name, further names and honourifics varies wildly. (Similar points apply to addresses. The right way to ask for a shipping address on the web is to provide a free-form textarea in which they can type their entire address. If you need more structured entry than that for some reason, you MUST make it dependent on the customer's country (and sometimes even state, province or the like) and fall back to the free-form input for any regions for which you don't have a structured form.) Regards,
From: jrodman Date: 15:14 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: ZIP Code: Please enter a valid ZIP Code. On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 12:16:56PM +0100, Andrew Black - lists wrote: > Ahhh - please can you merkins learn that you are not the only country in > the world... No. We can't. -josh
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